Nicole S. Turner:
You are listening to the Simply Instructional Coaching Podcast, a podcast for instructional coaches who want a simple plan with simple steps to get started coaching teachers. I’m your host Nicole, and I’m an elementary teacher turned instructional coach with a little bit of K-12 admin sprinkled in. Tune in for simple tips and strategies for what and how to coach teachers. Being an impactful instructional coach doesn’t have to be complicated. Let’s make it simple.
Hey, hey coaches. Welcome back to the Simply Instructional Coaching Podcast. I am so excited about this episode, especially because there is a super education trailblazer that I’ll be talking to today, and it is Zaretta Hammond. I am so excited for her to be here and for us to kind of, I guess, as she said earlier today, kind of come full circle for us to kind of be together here. And I’ll tell the story about how I got Zaretta to finally come to the summit and how we met. But welcome Zaretta to the podcast.
Zaretta Hammond:
Thank you for having me. Yeah, it has been a full circle moment and I’m so glad I get to be here after watching you grow this thing for years. And the very first time you invited me, I wasn’t able to participate. And when you reached out again and was able to, and here we are. Yes, this is going to be great.
Nicole S. Turner:
Yes. This is so exciting. So you guys, so listen to this crazy story. Zaretta, I guess she does her Facebook thing and she decided that she wanted to be a part of the Simply Instructional Coaching Facebook group. And when I saw that come in, I almost fell out my seat. I said Zaretta Hammond! Then we did a couple of Zoom calls, and so now we are here and she has been definitely someone that I look up to. She still is someone that I look up to and I’m excited for us to have this conversation. So before we jumped on, remember we were kind of talking a little bit about your book and about this anniversary coming up. So let’s kind of talk about that and share a little bit about that and then we’ll dive into maybe even talking about what your session is going to be about at the summit. And before that, let’s talk a little bit about your journey in education.
Zaretta Hammond:
Absolutely. Anybody who’s read my book has heard a little bit about my journey and my passion for literacy. First off, that’s where I cut my teeth. I used to be a classroom teacher who taught composition, right? The art of expository writing. I wasn’t an English teacher who dabbled in writing. This was my job to make sure students were college ready because they had very solid writing skills beyond that five paragraph essay format. Let’s not even talk about that. But the reality is that’s where I cut my teeth and I started to see the growth of my students when I employed particular techniques. Now, what was interesting about that is I then went into education policy. I felt that wasn’t the right place to have impact. I did that for about three or four years. I spent 12 years as an evaluation program specialist.
So again, for foundations that give out money, I was the person to go in, do the school visits, be in the classrooms, is the program that the foundation funded actually having impact on student achievement. So I did that for 12 years. I then always continued working with teachers and students even in that capacity, and then kind of went back to my roots and moved to California. And when my children were young, they’re grown people now and started working with a national equity project. I was there for eight years. I did training of their coaches around instructional issues that that’s not necessarily what National Equity Project does, but there’s always an instructional component to equity. So that’s where I really fell in love with what coaches do. And so understanding though that there were some missing pieces that I continue to see happening, I’ve continued to try and write so that it’s not only accessible to the classroom teacher, but also to those that support them.
And that would be instructional coaches. So that’s kind of where the connection is in terms of the coaching work that you do. I’m coach agnostic. I don’t subscribe to any particular methodology, but I know coaching can be successful if you come at it a variety of different ways, but I do know there’s some missing information. So it’s funny because I wrote the book because I had been coaching a group of teachers over a 15 year period, and honestly, I would have teachers roll up on me quite literally a little intimidating. You need to write this down. The way that you have been training us to improve our practice, you need to write this down. And one year I had a very aggressive group that insisted that I write and I feared that they were going to kidnap me and lock me in a room with a computer. And I said, okay, okay.
And I started the process and wrote it down, submitted it to a publisher that a friend had introduced me to, and went about my business. And that book was Culturally Responsive Teaching and the Brain. And I did it because I found neuroscience was the way in to help teachers kind of lower their resistance. Someone’s kind of evaluating me about my teaching or telling me, I’m like, no, look, there’s a science behind this. And so the brain science really was a nice way in. And then adding to that, how do we do that for students who have been historically marginalized beyond kind of this rah rah motivational thing, what is really the science of acceleration? How do we erase what I call cognitive red lines that have underdeveloped their cognition? So that has been kind of the mainstay. And that grew out of my own practice as a teacher.
I, as a writing teacher, I could not make the students become better writers. There was no amount of red pen I could use on those papers. So I stopped using red pen, started using purple because that’s my favorite color. And more importantly, I started kind of rearranging using more collectivist practices. Now people will hear that and think, oh, more group work. It’s not. Collectivist learning principles aren’t all about group work. And that’s another misconception people have about culturally responsive practice. It’s either about relationships or motivation or group work. These are the most common ones. And unfortunately, coaches are the ones who I have, I’ve seen have a lot more of those misconceptions because they’ve been tasked with, we’ve adopted culturally responsive practice – help the teachers become more culturally responsive, right? So the book I’m currently working on is really designed around understanding instructional equity, what content would a teacher leader, instructional coach really need to change practice at the classroom level or what Dr. Richard Elmore calls the instructional core.
So I am excited for that to come out probably later this year, maybe early next year. And it will be a compliment to Culturally Responsive Teaching and the Brain, right? Culturally responsive practice, instructional equity, these are really, I think, really important things as we help teachers close the knowing-doing gap. And that’s what I want to talk about when we come to the summit, right? This idea that coaches are doing their thing coaching, but I want to equip them and empower them with the right information about how we manage change for equity. How do we erase the cognitive red lines that have been put in place that we have just normalized, we don’t even see. And it’s more than how do we just take care of implicit bias or how do we become antiracist. I think those are important journeys, but that’s a means it’s not the end, right?
And we miss the piece that comes up in the Dufour PLC question, what will we do when students don’t learn? And that’s where I find there’s a big gap. Not only the practices, but what are the things that are actually going to help the student become a powerful information processor? How does a teacher coach the student to that higher level? So a lot of that is about instructional decision making, pedagogical content knowledge, some things that even coaches when they were teachers did not learn in their training. So I want to bring some of this really, really important foundational information and practice to this new generation of coaches.
Nicole S. Turner:
I think this is super important for coaches to really understand. I just did a survey last week and I asked coaches, I have this thing thread, I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but it’s called the Simple Core Four. And basically it’s the process or it’s a way in which coaches can help teachers in specific areas. And it’s kind of trajectory where we kind of start, we’re talking about the basics of just teaching, right. The organization stuff, and then we kind of talk about creating some type of management or utilizing some type of management and culture, building a culture in the classroom. That’s kind of where you will talk about those explicit biases and those types of things. And then we move into talking about that content and that instructional execution. And even if you utilize some of the simple framework, or even if you use Jim Knight’s holistic components of his seven pieces of that, he has the instructional playbook.
I think this right here in the content and instructional playbook is important because in that survey, some of the things coaches were asking me, I was like, were you not a classroom teacher? So it is those pieces of the puzzle that you’re correct, that instructional part is kind of missing. Some coaches really feel as though that they don’t have the power, the say, the voice to be able to have those conversations with their administrators. And that’s why I love what you say, it’s instructional leadership and some decision-making. Because even at those different levels, we can have a voice to really talk about what decisions can be made and what decisions can’t be made.
Zaretta Hammond:
I want to kind of clarify. Instructional decision making isn’t amongst adults in leadership roles. It’s not an admin conversation. The way Lee Schulman, you know some of the folks that really cut the early path in shifting education to really, really be student-centered back in, I’d say early two thousands, late 1990s, talk about instructional decision making as when the teacher sees the student is confused, what decision do I have to make? What would help the student get unconfused?
Nicole S. Turner:
Hey, hey coaches, I have a few questions for you. Are you struggling to get coaching cycles completed? Are you still trying to figure out what to coach? Are you confused about how to coach teachers? If you raised your hand and said yes to any of these questions, I want to invite you to join me and more than a hundred instructional coaches inside the Simply Coaching Hub. The Simply Coaching Hub is a professional development resource and community hub that will provide you with practical, relatable, and actionable professional development for new and seasoned instructional coaches. The hub is specifically for instructional coaches created by me, an instructional coach. In the hub, we focus on providing specific pathways that meet you where you are in your coaching journey. Differentiation is important when we work with students and even when we coach teachers. Shouldn’t it be important when it comes to your growth as a coach too?
Absolutely. And that’s why when you join the Hub, you will be prescribed a coaching pathway that will address your specific needs. The Hub also provides a simple framework for you to implement right away. It’s time you start coaching with confidence. And most importantly, the Hub is a community with over a hundred instructional coaches from all over the world. You will connect with someone who can support you through any situation you may be dealing with. And the best part is you have a coach walking side by side to support you in your journey. It’s time to elevate your instructional coaching with the Simply Coaching Hub. Check out www.simplycoachinghub.com to learn more. I will see you in the hub.
Nicole S. Turner:
So we’re talking more about instructional execution components when we’re in the classroom as the teacher making the instructional decision at that immediate moment.
Zaretta Hammond:
But here’s the thing about there is a very important difference between execution and decision making. So decision, instructional decision making is the idea that this is where responsiveness is. I have to make a decision. I might have three particular options, but I have to look at that student. Instructional execution is here’s a strategy and I’m executing it. And so this is the way a lot of teachers will take that in. So when we talk about, and teachers just need to Google that – instruction decision making, pedagogical content knowledge is a thing. And it’s something that actually is about, what do I understand students’ misconceptions about this are? How do I help move them beyond the misconceptions? So I stay in the instructional core. I only talk about instructional leadership when we are clear how to move a student from dependent learning, whether they’re always relying on the teacher to cognitively independent. And that is that piece that really gets the student to actually take on more and more rigor. So in the decision making is the teacher’s idea of what will I say to the student? What additional support does the student need? What tool can I coach the student to use? And how will I know to check for internalization that the student has mastered the use of that? So I keep it really focused on that instructional core. So I go ahead
Nicole S. Turner:
I am all into this cause I am learning, learning, learning.
So let’s talk about this. I’m the coach, right? And so I am working with the teacher and I am building that teacher’s, as I say, toolkit of being able to make that instructional decision in the classroom. What key pieces or what is it that I can do as a coach to build my toolkit, I guess, to be able to support a teacher that way?
Zaretta Hammond:
Well, that’s what we’re going to cover in the short summit session that I have, because we’ve got that. That’s such a big juicy question. The thing that I will say to that is I want people to think beyond toolkits. This is why the instructional playbook has its place, but it also has severe limits when we talk about the way in which we have designed and hardwired inequity into our schools. Okay, so playbooks, most people are looking for strategies. Here’s how to do that strategy. There is a missing component that is not just about the strategy, because I can do the strategy, but it doesn’t mean the student has mastered learning how to learn. So the fact is, if I’m not coaching the student to do that, it doesn’t matter what I have in my toolkit, it’s not transferring. And so this is what I want to at least start people to think about. This is what my next book is all about.
Nicole S. Turner:
Oh I cannot wait!
Zaretta Hammond:
What are the things we’re actually doing? How do we prepare the classroom so that it is a ecosystem that actually starts to build intellectual safety, but also initiate an apprentice students into rigor? What would a coach help a teacher do to do that? And then now we’re talking about how are we helping to put in the right kind of talk structures? What are routines like? And this is beyond just the administrative, because again, teachers can put those in, but if students have not kind of taken them up, then what we have as a pedagogy of compliance.
Teachers over scaffold too much. Because again, students aren’t moving through the content and through the instruction and the learning. So the teachers move them through with over scaffold instruction. And a lot of teachers don’t know what to do if they were to dismantle that. And a lot of coaches don’t know how to help teachers dismantle that so that the students can engage in productive struggle. I really want to live with coaches in this space of instructional equity, not playbooks, not strategies, but this kind of instructional decision making with the tools we know need to happen. And it doesn’t have to be a hundred unique things. Let’s just take talking. If the teacher’s doing the majority of the talking, she’s doing the majority of the learning.
Nicole S. Turner:
Work. Yes.
Zaretta Hammond:
So a lot of teachers don’t know how to let go of that to say, Ooh, it’ll be too unruly, but it won’t. Where’s the intellectual curiosity? There’s some things when you understand that cognitive neuroscience that will help you with your management, but a lot of students are acting out because their brains are bored. Yes. Boredom creates as much anxiety in the brain as trauma. Sit with that, right?
Nicole S. Turner:
Yes. Well, I mean, I’ve worked with, I’ve coached, it’s like you are all just talking about all of my experiences over the past 18 years as I have been in the classroom. And I’ve learned a little bit about the transfer of knowledge just a little bit. I read one of Julie Stern’s books, I’m sure you’re familiar with her, learned a little bit of her information. But I’m really excited about this, particularly as it is to coaches. Right now, Zaretta, what we’re dealing with, or what coaches are really dealing with is a lot of teachers that are not trained or certified as you will say, or have ever seen the light of a classroom beyond five minutes ago. So I think that so many, or right now they’re dealing with, they need that foundation a little bit and then getting into this content, I think we’ll be able to take that instruction to that next level. Absolutely. And I’m super excited about that. I’m super excited about this book.
Zaretta Hammond:
That’s how that happens. I run a PLC that is for teams, and it’s six and a half months long. It started as five months. The teachers wouldn’t leave that came into the PLC. Can we stay two more months? I’m like, I got to shut this down. It’s like the club. You don’t have to go home, but you got to get out of here. And I was really grateful because I learned a lot about what they need and they needed a space to actually, again, to kind of learn, build their chops around that. But what was really so important is I made sure that teams did not invite new teachers, not because new teachers don’t need it, but they are building their foundation, rightly so. Now, when a teacher is, I’d say three and a half to five years in the classroom, they’ve kind of mastered most of that management stuff.
They’re ready to say, okay, now I’m ready to actually take it to the next level. I may have to stop doing some things. I’m have to start doing some new things. But the basics I have that my brain is not consumed with that. So I really like working with teachers who are at least beyond that, right? Because they’re great people like you. There are other coaches out there that actually help new teachers. There’s just too much information. But I will say they do need to understand that you need to keep the brain engaged, not motivationally, but intellectually curious. And a lot of teachers are just following their content and following the curriculum pacing guide, and we have to help them understand that that’s okay, right? It’s kind of like training wheels, but you also need to know how to help the students kind of make meaning of that information and talk to each other that it’s not going to come in the pacing guide.
So these are skills that even teachers in those beginning years need to develop. So I really can’t wait to share a little bit of this, and I’ll just be sharing the tip of the iceberg at the summit, and hopefully it’ll inspire folks to follow me and kind of join some of my community. I’m going to be launching the PLC again probably later this year. I do a 90 day cycle. So folks who aren’t ready for six months can do a three month where we get you deep in looking at one or two things to shift in the classroom. I’m also going to be, I’m starting a newsletter for coaches and readyforrigor.com. You go there, you can get on the newsletter, it’ll probably start in the summer. So like I said, I, I’m really loving coaches and wanting to support them with this additional information. Again, you guys are doing a great job teaching them to be coaches. I want to augment that with some particular knowledge about the instruction that helps accelerate learning.
Nicole S. Turner:
Yes, I think it is super important because coaches are the ones, and I tell coaches a lot, you have to learn it yourself in order for you to be able to teach it. Because a lot of times we’re the ones who bring it to the table for the teachers. So we want to make sure that we get this skill set under our belt, so then we’ll be able to support those teachers in making that change or gradually releasing them right into learning how to implement this and make these decisions within the classroom. So I am so excited. Everything that Zaretta has mentioned will be in the show notes, will make sure that we link out to all of that. And she will be on day two of the summit. So make sure that you sign up and you get all of that information. I am so excited about this. When that 90 days hit, I’m probably going to sign up. So I’m just letting you know Zaretta, because I am going to be learning this along with many other coaches out there, just so that I could start to fill my coaching bucket full of all of the resources and strategies. I know you don’t like to, but the strategies, I’m going to call it my strategy and my toolbox.
Zaretta Hammond:
That’s right. Call it what you need to.
Nicole S. Turner:
Look, I’ll call it my bucket. You know how you fill, you got to fill your love bucket. This is my coach bucket, right? So I’m going to feel my coach bucket with all of this great information and I am so excited for you guys to learn more about this at the summit. Again, thank you Zaretta so much for your time. I know you are super busy, but to spend this time with me, I am so grateful. I’m beyond grateful and I know that all the listeners are as well.
Zaretta Hammond:
It was my pleasure.
Nicole S. Turner:
Thank you so much. And you guys go ahead. Make sure you check out the show notes and sign up for the summit and I will see you guys in the next episode. Happy coaching y’all.
Thanks for listening to the Simply Instructional Coaching podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this episode and you’d like to help support the podcast, please share it with other coaches and teacher leaders, post about it on social media, and leave a rating or review. To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on Instagram @SimplyCoachingandTeaching_ and on Twitter @coachandteach. Thanks again and I’ll see you in the next episode. Happy Coaching.
